Thursday, July 30, 2009

Differences and Similarities

By request, I'm going to address some of what it is that I "got" about the similarities and differences between the sweeping and hooking palms as mentioned in my article. Really, the two palms are quite different, and that's important to note. In actuality, when you look at all of the forms of the sweeping palm and the hooking palm and take a careful look at the striking methods, you'll see that they're pretty diverse in both cases. Still, they're quite overlapping as well. Something similar exists for the cutting and chopping palms, I think. These things, it seems to me, are done particularly in the basic strikes, which are chosen to be representative, so as to help reinforce the ability to find and execute the forces of the strikes (which in lots of ways are similar in the big picture and yet different in the details).

The big themes of sweeping and hooking, in theory, are, I believe:
  • Sweeping endeavors to create a sticky, scraping force and moves in a wheeling fashion. An opponent hit by a sweeping strike, particularly one that glances off or that is used to open the opponent, should be dragged off balance a little by the strike. This is accomplished by an idea of wheeling and scraping. Sweeping strikes also hit directly, cutting into the opponent like a sword.
  • Hooking endeavors to move the opponent as if they were being snagged by a big hook. The name is dual in meaning: the arm is shaped like a hook and the arm is used like a hook. To use a hook well, one would have to stretch out and then come back, push and then pull, if you will. The idea is that the arm should be carrying the opponent somewhere as if he's been snagged by a hook, so there's a real idea of moving the opponent around with a hooking strike.
A couple of examples, I think, are useful to make things more clear. Ideally, what you need to do is pick a couple of the really similar strikes and do similar applications with them, trying to find how it feels different. First, let's think of inward sweeping and inward/severing hooking in the simple application that you've opened the opponent already and stepped in to throw him, leg behind his leg. The sweeping strike moves in a wheeling motion and therefore should turn the opponent some, but since it seems to hit more directly, I tend to get more "straight back" in terms of reaction from my opponent unless I *really* try to spin them around. It's not as straight as something like a chop, but it's pretty straight. In contrast, severing hooking seems to really spin the opponent because it's almost like you're lifting him up with the structure of your arm and really thinking about moving him out and away from you with a slight jerk back at the end. The opponent's reaction is very round.

In the second example, there's an application that's relatively accessible using any of rising sweeping, rising cutting, or opening hooking (the first and last on this list being quite similar in execution with that same slight difference) where the opponent's arms end up crossed while you stand behind him and put pressure on his arm and throw him down. It's in the Forcing Hand dvd, for instance, but the exact move isn't important to this discussion. Doing that move with sweeping until it's relatively comfortable, then with hooking until the same, and then going back and forth really underscored the difference. Hooking has a very strong "I'm carrying this guy around" feeling to it where as sweeping does not. Sweeping has more of an idea of knocking the guy out of the way but in a manner where there's still connection.

I don't think this is very clear, but I'm going to let it stand. It's quite difficult, I'm sure you can appreciate, to discuss movements and kinesthetic sensations in text, and as far as applications go, they never come out well when written down (at least I don't seem to think they do). The point is that the two palms feel different even though they have techniques that are done very similarly, and that those similarites boost development in the gross skills while those differences hone the mind to pay attention to and use subtle differences to achieve different results in the same or different situations. As far as I know, the only way to "get" it is to realize there's a difference, train how you believe that difference might manifest, try it out, revise, refine, and then train it and try it again and again. Baguazhang is not redundant (that would be inefficient and unneccessary), and so if they feel the same to you, then you're doing something wrong, i.e. it's incorrect to say or think or feel that "opening hooking is just like rising sweeping with a closed fist and slightly more bent arm." While on the outside, gross level that's largely true, there's different intent there that can only come about by looking for, focusing on, and then training the subtle difference in strategy and technique between the two strikes. Still, the similarity is strong enough to achieve the following two goals, in my experience: 1) getting beginners started with the hooking strike, and 2) to have a strong overlap in the "finding the force" effort in both strikes.

3 comments:

Myles said...

thanks Jim, that does help to clear up some things. I agree that there are also similarity's with cutting and chopping as well but I feel that since you make use of the wrist and knuckles to cut and the forearm to chop it makes it easier to see and understand the differences between those two strikes where as with sweeping and hooking the forearm is employed in both making it slightly harder to see the difference. The two examples you give are excellent so long as they are understood. Which is hard to put into words I agree but if one is familiar with the basic techniques it should not be too far a stretch to understand what is being discussed. Now I just wish I had someone to try and feel this out on.

Ray said...

Thanks for posting this. This certainly will help me on my striking practices.

Appropriateness of the strike comes to my mind after I read this post. I have been trying the Opening Sweeping strike with my friend who does Wing Chun and Taichi. His hands are very flexible, they can change and move very quickly. It is very hard to sweep or move his hands to any direction (well, this is only when I'm starting the attack, not when I intercept his incoming punches). If I try to carry him away with my sweep he just simply relaxes and his hand would come around to attack me. It seems much harder to control the hands they are relax.

However, the Point Cutting strike, seems to be very effective as I don't need to control his hand after I hit.

This make me come to conclusion that each type of force is more appropriate for certain style of opponent. (I don't know if this is a correct conclusion. It is either that or my gongfu is not be enough to execute it properly...)

Any way, thanks for the post =)

Myles said...

after training some cutting strikes the other day I realized that I was incomplete in my previously stated depiction on the cutting vs the chopping strike. The cutting strike does have a smashing down variant using the forearm, essentially a point smashing strike using the forearm instead of the knuckles. Were I generalized that the cutting uses the fist or knuckles and the wrist vs' the chopping using the forearm I should have made note that cutting can also use the forearm but that it seems to use the back of the forearm not unlike the rolling shock strike, where as chopping uses the ridge(s) of the forearm.

"The most important thing when studying the martial arts is not to be lazy. These skills are not easily attained. For them, one must endure a lot of suffering." -He Jinbao